Transit & Whatnot
Lots of people are excited about the Beltline (myself include), but I think we need to be careful in the midst of all the excitement, too. I don’t want Atlantans to make the mistake of betting it all on the Beltline. Sure, the Beltline is a great project, and a very important one - but it’s a long-term project, spanning 25 years. We need viable transit solutions in the meantime.
This may seem like common sense, but sometimes common sense can get away from us in the face of new and exciting possibilities.
I often find myself wondering why, instead of looking for a bunch of new transit possibilities, we don’t just expand on what we already have - the MARTA heavy rail.
Subway and el systems have stood the test of time in other major U.S. cities (not to mention abroad); it’s time for Atlanta, as the nexus of the South, to catch up. When it comes to Atlanta and MARTA, sometimes I feel like a parent of an unruly child - you give them love and encouragement, and you watch as they stumble, knowing they could accomplish so much more, and hoping they finally realize their potential one day.
Recently I heard someone say that the problem with MARTA isn’t the coverage area, but the access. I still think MARTA should have more coverage other than just north-south and east-west, but I definitely agree that creating more access points to the existing lines should be a priority. In fact, I’ll go so far as to say I think it should take precedence over expanding the coverage area. I don’t know if building new stations along existing rail lines would be less expensive than laying new track, but I think it’s worthwhile.
Station density along the rail lines should resemble that of the small area of midtown and downtown where stations are actually within walking distance of one another (e.g., 5 blocks & change from Arts Center Station to Midtown Station). The distance from Arts Center Station to Lindbergh Station, however, is ridiculous - certainly not walkable.
In Manhattan the average distance between subway stations is 7-10 blocks. I know Atlanta isn’t New York, but is it really unreasonable to make the comparison? Atlanta is the metropolitan area of the South, and it’s an old and established city; why should we not expect the same things from it that we expect of major Northern cities?
December 1st, 2005 at 1:51 am
Amber writes: ” I know Atlanta isn’t New York, but is it really unreasonable to make the comparison……….Why should we NOT expect the same things from Atlanta we expect of major Northern cities.”
Amber, I hate to bring a little showers and rain on your idealistic, philosophical way of thinking, but the last time I checked the map Atlanta is located south of the Mason-Dixon line. In fact, it’s way, way, way, way south of the Mason-Dixon line.
Make no mistake: The United States is a very, very diverse country–racially, religiously, and politically. However, Atlanta is not New York City.
I’m definitely on your side, Amber, with a New York state-of-mind, but I don’t think one can realistically expect New York problem-solving principles surfacing in Atlanta.
How Northerner’s think is most generally not how Southerner’s think. I love living in Atlanta, but I’m realistic enough to know that, as a gay male, same-sex marriage rights in Georgia ain’t going to happen in my lifetime, and most likely for gay southern babies exiting the womb at this very second in Atlanta.
But who knows? Fifty years ago a wonderful, shy-appearing, introverted woman, Rosa Parks, changed the racial and political landscape of America for the better, and maybe someday a little gay newborn, Ross Parks, or a little lesbian newborn, Rosa Parks, can change the ultimate destiny of gay Georgians and gay Americans, too.
Atlanta is a wonderful, wonderful and generally tolerant city, but the tolerance level only goes so far, and gay marriage will, and will always be off the radar screen for many moons to come. Many moons to come!!!!!
Granted, the Beltline issue and the gay marriage issue are two separate distinct issues, but how business is conducted in New Y-A-W-K is of little interest to most Atlanta politicans. And if is of interest to Atlanta politicans, they can kiss their political futures goodbye.
Rudy G. was a very well-liked and well-respected mayor of New York City, but one must remember that during his mayoral term he was having an open heterosexual adulterous affair, sometimes appeared in drag, and for a period of time lived with an openly gay male couple as their roommate–all of this with the nodding approval and sanction of his fellow Gotham citizens.
Let’s just say that Mayor Shirley Franklin dressing in drag, having paramours, and living with gay companions in Midtown are not going to win her many votes at the ballot box. Gay votes– yes, but Republican funamentalist Christian votes–no.
One footnote. If gay Atlantans could marry, some of the traffic problems just might conceivably be solved in a jiffy. With a gay and lesbian community in excess of 400,000, many gays and lesbians would most likely be sharing a house or an apartment in domestic married bliss with their loved one, instead of often living miles apart and being constantly stuck in bumper-to-bumper traffic jams counting the minutes and hours until their “special” person is by their side.
Chad
December 1st, 2005 at 10:30 am
Wow. It’s like you missed the point of my post completely.
And there was no need to be snarky there, bud.
December 1st, 2005 at 4:24 pm
I’m not sure where you are going with this Chad - that gay people would use transit more if they are able to marry?
Anyways… the closest I could come up with a comparison is not regarding southerners themselves, but more how southern cities like Atlanta have developed. Particularly Atlanta, which is far more of a 1900’s era city than New York City, regarding the built infrastructure. Meaning, New York City was actually BUILT to be pedestrian oriented & to promote transit mobility, most of Atlanta - including the inner-suburban areas of Virginia Highlands, were built for car mobility. It is very difficult to restructure a developed environment that encourages car usage to something else. Primarily - in Atlanta, car mobility will simply have to be made inconvinient if we are to make Atlanta a more pro-transit city.
December 1st, 2005 at 4:31 pm
Well, I guess from your point of view I was an “UNRULY” poster. I’m sorry if I ruffled your feathers. I’ve been called worse things than: snarky. Much worse things!!!
If by chance you do indeed have feathers, you don’t need Marta. Heck no! JUST START FLAPPING YOUR WINGS AND FLY TO YOUR NEXT DESTINATION.
I don’t think I missed the point of your post–completely. A word such as “completely” negates the grey areas. Most life situations have grey areas.
Solving traffic gridlock in Atlanta will not be an easy fix. Yes, expanding Marta is a great idea, Amber. Likewise, $4.00 a gallon gas is probably a great idea, too. Americans will only part with their big SUVs when filling the gas tank is mucho expensive.
Mass transit just doesn’t register with most Americans, including Atlantans. I’ll be upfront and honest here, “It still doesn’t register with me–yet.” I know it should. Let’s just say I’m much, much older than you. I did take a brief look at your web site, Amber. Nice site!!!! Mass transit means walking, and I loathe walking at my age.
Cheap gas has been taken for granted for decades, but I’m afraid cheap gas had a nice, lovely run but its days are numbered. All good things eventually come to an end. “Here today, gone tomorrow.”
Mass transit registers with New Yorkers, as owning a car in Manhattan is impractical. It may be practical for billionaires such as Trump and Bloomberg, as they can afford the outrageous parking garage fees.
Chad
December 1st, 2005 at 4:40 pm
I know exactly what you mean, Brad, by parts of Atlanta being built around car traffic. I work in Tucker and live in Virginia Highland, and the route I take home is so congested it gives me plenty of time to notice how little room there is for rail expansion from midtown to the NE end of the perimeter because of all the established roads and buildings - and that stinks.
I like your idea, Amber, of making new entry stations to the MARTA line. I’ve ridden from the Chamblee station to Midtown many times and noticed the huge stretches of track that go on before you get to a station.
I’ve also read that MARTA is not very convenient for those who need it the most - the people in economically depressed area who can’t afford car payments. I think that those areas would be a good place to start with expanding the train lines.
And if they do increase ridership and expand the lines, I hope the trains will run much more frequently because, on the weekends, there can be a huge standing-room-only crowd.
December 1st, 2005 at 5:54 pm
Brad,
In regard to gay marriage and bumper-to-bumper traffic, I was just trying to make the point that if society sanctioned gay marriage many same-sex couples would be much more inclined to be living under one roof. Certainly not all, of course. I don’t think the issue of mass transit is related to the point I was trying to make.
Some gay couples may not live together, especially outside of 285, because the neigborhoods may not be very welcoming.
When Ma and Pa visit, more than a few partners sometimes leave the house with photo albums and clothes packed in the trunk of the car. Talk about traffic jams!!!!! In this particular case, lugging tons of boxes with photo albums and clothes on Marta would not be such a good thing.
I totally agree with you about the mass transist-unfriendly infrastructure of Atlanta, Brad. You’re right on the money. The automobile revolutionized America, and jumping ship is going to be a difficult leap.
I don’t know about anyone else living here in Atlanta, but I’ve altered my driving patterns a bit. Not much, but a bit. A few inner-city neighborhood streets now have HUGE SPEED BUMPS, and needless to say these speed bumps take a toll not only on my fragile back, but my car’s shocks as well. I pity the poor folks driving Honda Civics, as they must be seeing a chiropractor on a weekly basis.
If you like driving over speed bumps, you’ll love driving down Shepherds Lane. It’s off of La Vista Road. It’s a nice shortcut to Emory, but those speed bumps are something else. If your loved one is having back surgery at Emory Hospital, please don’t drive them home on Shepherds Lane. Please!!!!!
Hey! SPEED BUMPS MAY BE THE SOLUTION TO OUR TRAFFIC PROBLEMS!!
Chad
December 2nd, 2005 at 9:53 am
Chad - I fully understand your point & I admit I just found some humour in attempting to link gay marriage with transit usage, anyways I am also very prone to rambling…
But the real key for transit usage is really this - make driving cars too inconvinient. Which will happen anyways in the future with increasing congestion. Which is the catch-22, we won’t have high transit usage until traffic is at a complete impass on all freeways & major arteries for the entire Atlanta region all the time. But even with increased transit usage, that still won’t answer the real culprit - Atlanta metro’s land use disaster, which spawns this great traffic.
But we’re faced with a big dilemna, high transit usage will be great, but bad car traffic will cause a big detour for the nation’s movers & shakers about investing in a traffic-riddled city.
Before you talk about transit, you have to talk about land use.
December 2nd, 2005 at 11:15 am
without fail, i always find amber’s defensive responses to ANYONE who makes ANY KIND of comment not entirely in line with her opinions a real downside to the generally excellent level of discourse on this site. please chill, amber. you don’t know everything and you may learn a whole lot more by opening up to other points of view.
December 2nd, 2005 at 11:30 am
Wow, I barely said anything at all. It’s weird that you’re pissed off because of what I’ve said or written. I don’t get it.
December 2nd, 2005 at 1:04 pm
am not pissed off. i visit this site frequently. my comment was simply my observation, over time. calling someone “snarky” and “bud,” to me, was illustrative of what i have seen in the past from your postings and i am sharing what i find negative about the site. albeit, a minor thing, but one i dislike.
December 2nd, 2005 at 1:55 pm
Well, I dislike people talking to me like this:
and:
There’s a word for it where I’m from: condescending. But what can you do. Anyway, I’m not sure how I can “chill” when I’m not even worked up.
December 2nd, 2005 at 2:43 pm
i suggest you grow up, dear girl. true, i don’t know where you come from — and how glad i am that i don’t. but you certainly are worked up or you wouldn’t go to such lengths to justify yourself. further, since you are one of the hosts of this site, i suggest you act like a gracious one. now, go ahead, get defensive. it’s so predictable. and oh so boring.
December 2nd, 2005 at 3:27 pm
Brad, Darin…It isn’t just Atlanta. IIRC, the state highway budget dwarfed everything else (transportation or not). I’ll look again this weekend.
December 2nd, 2005 at 3:34 pm
As for the rest of the comments, they sound like a joke setup:
“A high-strung writer, a flaming romantic, and a condescending shill walk into a blog…”
December 2nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
Brad,
I agree with you. Atlanta’s traffic congestion will not be solved until driving is really, really, really, really, a pain in you-know-what.
We all know our traffic is a pain in that proverbial you-know-what, “BUTT” it’s not yet at the point where people are willing to give up their cars. Some folks do just a little–but those folks are in the minority. At present, traffic gridlock is just 14/5, and not 24/7.
One factor in the future that could alter the traffic equation to some degree, unrelated to MARTA or mass transit, is job resourcing. It’s definitely the wave of the future–job-wise. How significantly it will alter jobs is a question mark. Maybe not a whole lot, but it’s certainly a force that is going change the status quo.
The medical profession is being transformed a little by job resourcing. ( X-rays ). Other professions may eventually see similar changes as well.
As our society increasingly becomes a 24/7 society, a majority of companies may be forced to operate on a 24/7 basis, too. Second and third shifts may be standard-operating- procedure. Working from home computers is becoming more common-place.
If filling our gas tanks becomes a pain in you-know-what, that will reduce conjestion. NO GAS–NO DRIVE. I’m not entirely speaking about the price of gas here.
I don’t know about you, but sometimes I get very irritated when I’m at the gas station. Too many times young guys in their late teens and 20s ( never women ) have their car stereos blasting at 10,000 decibels. Naturally, these young guys are never 10 gas pumps away from me, BUT ALWAYS RIGHT AT THE NEXT GAS PUMP.
Listening to “good” music at 10,000 decibels is one thing, but listening to “‘bad” music at 10,000 decibels is quite another. Yanni at 10,000 decibels might be ok, but some music even at O-N-E DECIBEL is not ok.
Come to think of it, blaring music at 10,000 decibels might reduce traffic on 285.
Have you heard any good heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy metal lately?
Chad
December 2nd, 2005 at 5:57 pm
Road rage is one thing, but is there such a thing as BLOG RAGE???
Is there a boxing ring at Manuel’s? In the midst of the Bloglanta celebration, I think Kristina and Amber are going to slugging each other on December 7th.
Amber’s TOP 10 LIST may be slowly falling by the way-side. She’s never had a broken bone. Well, that one will be history come December 7th.
She’s never been drunk. That may be history, too, come December 7th. I assume Manuel’s serves liquor.
She’s never had a grilled cheese sandwich. I assume Manuel’s serves grilled cheese sandwiches. Grilled cheese sandwiches tend to make me mellow.
She’s never been to a Karaoke bar. I assume Manuel’s is a Karaoke bar.
I wish I could attend the Bloglanta celebration, but there’s a conflict in my schedule. If I did attend, I would be renting a pair of boxing gloves.
I do suggest one wonderful karaoke sing-along song:
“THAT’S WHAT FRIENDS ARE FOR”
Amber, maybe I could have been a little more tactful in my post. We all have good days and bad days. Likewise, we all have issues–mucho, mucho, mucho, mucho issues, and I certainly have mine.
Chad
December 2nd, 2005 at 9:23 pm
Manuel’s is not a karaoke bar, and it would be a tragedy to see some of its patrons resort to something like that.
I would hope, however, that our gathering at Manuel’s would help us humanize each other, rather than see each other as little more than text on a computer monitor. It’s a shame you’re unable to make it, Chad, but I hope to have a chance to meet you at some point in the future.
In any case, I think y’all have made your points, and there’s little point in belaboring either of your points. I thought I’d point that out.
As the owner of this here website, I’m not ready to close comments to this post. This is just a little reminder that it would be my executive decision. I’d rather y’all work things out on your own, if you can.
December 2nd, 2005 at 10:31 pm
I agree with you wholeheartedly on this one Amber. But it’s been sort of a chicken-or-the-egg sort of thing. Heavy rail (subways where possible) is by far the best backbone for a public transit system in urban areas. But density within walking distance of the stations is necessary to support the expense of rapid rail. It’s the most initially expensive of the alternatives (heavy rail, light rail or buses). I’d personally rather see ten miles of heavy rail added to the system than a hundred miles of surface light rail. And that puts me in the somewhat odd postion of preferring buses as a better short term solution than light rail.
December 3rd, 2005 at 9:20 am
Joe,
Yes, I think the general tone of the posts could be a little less controntational. You know, a little less “In-your-face” type of language. But, on the other hand we wouldn’t want to have a love fest. A love fest would be kind of boring–beads, holding hands, chanting, and beating drums.
Agreeing with each and every point of view would be disingenuous, as a little controversy spikes things up a bit.
Civility seems to be a thing of the past. When our selected/elected national leaders, a certain President and Vice-President, have a propensity for frequently using the “F” word– that doesn’t bode well for civil discourse.
Europeans tend to view most Americans as brash, conceited, smug, know-it-alls. Of course, watching Judge Judy, Jerry Springer, and their trashy ilk only compound an already dismal state of disrespect.
Maybe next year I can make the celebration, and I look forward to meeting you. There’s no doubt in my mind that Bloglanta will again win top honors as the number one blog site in Atlanta. With folks like us posting, how could we lose?
Well, in this case it’s ok to be brash, conceited, smug, know-it-alls.
Eat your heart out to the second, third, and fourth-rate bloggers. WE’RE NUMBER ONE.
Cheers to all. HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!!!!
Chad
December 3rd, 2005 at 2:23 pm
Chad: actually, I have had a grilled cheese sandwich. You should check my updates.
And I’m not getting “in the ring” with anybody, literally or figuratively. Blog rage is lame.
I wasn’t aware that the posts on Bloglanta had a “confrontational” tone. I’ve never noticed one. Anyway, I’m over it; if there’s going to be this kind of juvenile outbreak with every post, then I don’t think I’ll post anymore.
Thank you, Larry, for staying on topic. While I don’t like busses that much overall, I do agree that they’re good for an interim, quick-fix solution. And they should always be there as a supplement to rail transit - but I think rail transit should be the main form of transit.
December 3rd, 2005 at 5:58 pm
Amber,
For some strange reason I seem to check the guy’s updates a lot more than the girl’s updates–a lot more. I still can’t figure that one out. Duh!
You’re only in your mid 20s, so your list will be slowly dwindling as time marches on.
I can’t remember your complete list, but I do share one: “I’ve never been drunk either.” I know you people out there in blogland are probably skeptical and shaking your heads, but it’s the truth.
I don’t like busses either. They’re really a nuisance on the road, and the fumes stink.
General Motors used to be in the bus business a little, and maybe that should have been their main focus. However, I recall their busses seemed to emit a lot of smoke. Now, they’re barely in the car business.
GM should get in the rail transit business. Maybe they haven’t found their true niche.
Happy holidays to you.
Chad