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	<title>Comments on: If Your Power Center is a Greyfield, Do You Develop a Black Hole?</title>
	<link>http://www.bloglanta.com/archives/255</link>
	<description>For fans of everything ITP</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 16:52:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.bloglanta.com/archives/255#comment-904</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Nov 2006 23:47:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bloglanta.com/archives/255#comment-904</guid>
		<description>T - While the demographic component does figure into the formula retailers use in their location decisions, it's really tangential to Robert's argument here.

In his book "How Cities Work," Alex Marshall discussed a similar concept as what Robert discussed. As one area overheats with growth and development, the growth spills off to other areas, which act as "pressure-release valves."

The PRV metaphor is quite relevant here -- in a healthy city, a PRV is only big enough to release so much pressure at a time. The circumstances that created the pressure to begin with can sustain themselves as long as the pressure doesn't escape too quickly. In the cases of the greyfields Robert mentioned, the growth and development moved away too quickly for Gwinnett and Cumberland malls to sustain their energy -- the PRVs were too big.

In a place like Atlanta, which has built itself to be very dependent on large highways, large PRVs will be more the rule than the exception. Places like Vinings and Little Five Points are far-enough removed from limited-access highways that they're better equipped to sustain their growth and development, even as the pressure flows over to nearby areas.

For an example of a mall conversion to a town center, check out Dover-Kohl's plan for &lt;a href="http://www.doverkohl.com/project_graphic_pages_pfds/Eastgate%20Mall%20Redevelopment%20project%20page.pdf" rel="nofollow"&gt;Eastgate Town Center in Tennessee&lt;/a&gt; (PDF).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>T - While the demographic component does figure into the formula retailers use in their location decisions, it&#8217;s really tangential to Robert&#8217;s argument here.</p>
<p>In his book &#8220;How Cities Work,&#8221; Alex Marshall discussed a similar concept as what Robert discussed. As one area overheats with growth and development, the growth spills off to other areas, which act as &#8220;pressure-release valves.&#8221;</p>
<p>The PRV metaphor is quite relevant here &#8212; in a healthy city, a PRV is only big enough to release so much pressure at a time. The circumstances that created the pressure to begin with can sustain themselves as long as the pressure doesn&#8217;t escape too quickly. In the cases of the greyfields Robert mentioned, the growth and development moved away too quickly for Gwinnett and Cumberland malls to sustain their energy &#8212; the PRVs were too big.</p>
<p>In a place like Atlanta, which has built itself to be very dependent on large highways, large PRVs will be more the rule than the exception. Places like Vinings and Little Five Points are far-enough removed from limited-access highways that they&#8217;re better equipped to sustain their growth and development, even as the pressure flows over to nearby areas.</p>
<p>For an example of a mall conversion to a town center, check out Dover-Kohl&#8217;s plan for <a href="http://www.doverkohl.com/project_graphic_pages_pfds/Eastgate%20Mall%20Redevelopment%20project%20page.pdf" rel="nofollow">Eastgate Town Center in Tennessee</a> (PDF).</p>
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		<title>By: Teashook</title>
		<link>http://www.bloglanta.com/archives/255#comment-903</link>
		<dc:creator>Teashook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Nov 2006 12:47:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bloglanta.com/archives/255#comment-903</guid>
		<description>Aren't you ignoring the demographic component linked to the location of these malls. Lenox is near lot of young folks in Buckhead with disposable income. Stonecrest is near many middle class young African Americans with disposable income.

Avondale Mall will be remodelled alright-but as a Wal-Mart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aren&#8217;t you ignoring the demographic component linked to the location of these malls. Lenox is near lot of young folks in Buckhead with disposable income. Stonecrest is near many middle class young African Americans with disposable income.</p>
<p>Avondale Mall will be remodelled alright-but as a Wal-Mart.</p>
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		<title>By: Some Other Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.bloglanta.com/archives/255#comment-902</link>
		<dc:creator>Some Other Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Nov 2006 08:15:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bloglanta.com/archives/255#comment-902</guid>
		<description>lol...deadmall.com feels the need to define 'arcade', in mallspeak.  Damn you, consoles!  PCs, get off my lawn!

Really, though.  Is there that much competition for retail?  Place a big-box location on each highway spoke, and one intown.    Hell, there's even a Cracker Barrel going up on Windward Parkway.

After the buildout, it's a matter of time as to which malls are deemed useful; Lenox/Phipps gets a break because of their north Atlanta location (and a small boost from history, by now).  Gwinett and Cumberland?  Both are seas (morasses, really) of retail, and it's quite possible the malls themselves have become lost amidst the big boxen.

Really, if the malls become outdated and useless, while their surrounding retail thrives, bulldoze the malls into parks, and run a doughnut formation. It's kind of like Piedmont Park, which (last I checked) generates a lot less than $150/ft^2, and spurs a lot more growth nearby.

Yes, I'm expanding the definition of 'greyfield' beyond commercial, to apply to civic spaces;  I think they apply.  Also, I consider 'retail' to be synonymous with 'whoring out,' and the sector a drain on economies and cultures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lol&#8230;deadmall.com feels the need to define &#8216;arcade&#8217;, in mallspeak.  Damn you, consoles!  PCs, get off my lawn!</p>
<p>Really, though.  Is there that much competition for retail?  Place a big-box location on each highway spoke, and one intown.    Hell, there&#8217;s even a Cracker Barrel going up on Windward Parkway.</p>
<p>After the buildout, it&#8217;s a matter of time as to which malls are deemed useful; Lenox/Phipps gets a break because of their north Atlanta location (and a small boost from history, by now).  Gwinett and Cumberland?  Both are seas (morasses, really) of retail, and it&#8217;s quite possible the malls themselves have become lost amidst the big boxen.</p>
<p>Really, if the malls become outdated and useless, while their surrounding retail thrives, bulldoze the malls into parks, and run a doughnut formation. It&#8217;s kind of like Piedmont Park, which (last I checked) generates a lot less than $150/ft^2, and spurs a lot more growth nearby.</p>
<p>Yes, I&#8217;m expanding the definition of &#8216;greyfield&#8217; beyond commercial, to apply to civic spaces;  I think they apply.  Also, I consider &#8216;retail&#8217; to be synonymous with &#8216;whoring out,&#8217; and the sector a drain on economies and cultures.</p>
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